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Dear <<First Name>>,
Welcome to our November 2022 edition of DNANZ Dream Bulletin. It has been an interesting year as we have moved to a more online Zoom format for our monthly meetings. This has proved to be very successful as we have been able to include our members from other parts of Aotearoa. Very interesting webinars have been presented thanks to Jeni McGarry’s honing of her technical skills! Whilst we still have the “we can hear you but can’t see you, check the bottom left hand corner of your screen” start-up moments for some members, it adds a séance-like comedic quality to the joys of “zooming.”

In this edition we have a variety of articles for you: 
  • To begin, Di Batchelor has submitted the first half of some research she is doing on “Consciousness and Dreaming.” This section of her research focusses on consciousness and NDE’s (Near Death Experiences) as opposed to dreaming.
  • Jeni McGarry then reports on Di’s extremely interesting presentation on internationally renowned dream researcher, Bob Hoss’s methodology – The Hoss Protocol. Di had, in fact, been in touch with Bob making it all the better. She also referred us to Bob’s website where we are able to find free resources to use the protocol if we wish to investigate further. As the methodology was somewhat different from our own “Bowater model,” I was compelled to check out the website, download some resources and try it out successfully myself the very next day. But I admit to combining Margaret’s “drawing the dream” part with the Hoss Protocol.
  • Marie Brand takes all of this learning a step further and compares and contrasts the Hoss Protocol with the Bowater Model. Here we see a very carefully executed and clear description of each protocol applied to the same personal nightmare. Thanks to Marie for such a deep and enlightening explanation.
  • My own dream report Moving Forward follows Marie’s report. In contrast, my dream appears to be a transition dream following a family reconciliation. The dream is extremely colourful and full of symbolism. It was very affirming for me and extremely moving in many ways.
  • Another Dream Report follows by Margaret Thorne. She names it Four Trees. This dream has very clear symbolism relating to her current interest in her family ancestors and how they may have lived.
  • Finally check out Looking Ahead as Margaret Bowater signals upcoming events for 2023 including webinars and a possible conference later in the year.
Enjoy your reading and the warmer weather bringing new growth.
Lyn Papp (Editor)



Consciousness and Dreaming; Where is Consciousness and Where do
Dreams come from?
By Di Batchelor. B Ed, Dip Teach, Post Grad Dip Sci (Ecological Restoration).
Part I 

Scientists generally accept the materialist scientific hypothesis that consciousness is a product of brain function. This view has gone largely unquestioned until recent quantifiable studies on the NDEs (Near Death Experiences) of cardiac arrest survivors. The studies have demonstrated that these patients have experienced consciousness during clinical death when (the flat-line on the EEG monitor indicates that) their brain function has ceased.

Dr Pim Van Lommel reported that “In four recently published prospective studies on NDE in survivors of cardiac arrest, with identical study design, between ten and twenty percent of 562 patients reported an experience of enhanced consciousness during the period of apparent unconsciousness, during clinical death,” (Van Lommel. January 2013. Journal of Consciousness Studies, Volume 20, Numbers 1-2, pp. 7-48(42)). Dr Van Lommel and others who are researching the phenomenon of NDEs describe the brain “as a relay station for parts of these wave-fields of consciousness to be received into our waking consciousness” (Van Lommel 2011).

A person having an NDE typically reports some or all of the following;
  • An out of body experience (OBE) in which they find themselves floating above their body. They are pain free and think ‘I’m dead’. They can see what is going on around them and sometimes report that vision as 360°. They can also hear what is being said and sometimes this includes hearing people’s thoughts as well. If they are in hospital being revived, they can verifiably report what was said and done by the medical team.
  • They may find themselves in a dark room in the presence of other spiritual beings and they are drawn through a tunnel with, or towards a bright light. This concept of what happens at death has become very much a part of popular culture and depictions of it even appear in children’s animated movies.
  • In most cases a relative who has previously died, or an angel, a pet, or even Jesus, will appear by their side to accompany and comfort them on their journey. The experiencer is able to communicate to everyone they encounter using telepathy and sometimes meld completely with whomever they are communicating and feel unconditionally loved and understood. They may get all their big questions answered.
  • They end up in a very beautiful place that seems to be an enhanced version of nature. There is beautiful music and many people and creatures having a wonderful time. Researcher Peter Fenwick, being English, likens this to an English country garden (Fenwick 2018). Eben Alexander’s NDE account included being a tiny speck on a butterfly wing, joined by a beautiful woman. His experience was accompanied by magnificent music (Alexander 2014).
  • At some point during their NDE, many people have a life review. This is not Judgment Day. They go over the major events of their life and relive their feelings and the feelings of others, caused by their thoughts and actions. The negative and painful feelings disappear and all of the love they ever gave or received remains with them to take with them to eternity. This may sound a bit far-fetched but the sentiment is echoed in ‘A Course of Miracles’ (ACIM), a spiritual book published in mid 1970’s.
  • At some point they are told that they haven’t finished their life’s work and have to go back. According to an account cited by Peter Fenwick (October 2019) this may be before or after they begin to merge with the eternal deity, become pure energy and are reincorporated into the universe. In some accounts people know they have been told their life-purpose but can’t remember it. Nevertheless, many NDE survivors change their life-work towards more humanitarian purposes.

    These experiences can also be brought on by near drowning, loss of blood, fearing death (scared to death), disease, isolation, depression and, more positively, meditation (Van Lommel 2013). Although the phenomenon has become popularly known as the Near-Death Experience, it is argued that in the case of Cardiac Arrest, it (Cardiac Arrest) is not a near death experience but an actual death experience,” (Parnia, 2012) because if no-one were to apply CPR and defibrillation to bring them back to life the person would remain dead. Elements described in NDEs have been a tradition in many cultures and religions throughout history.
                                     (to be continued in Next Dream Bulletin)

Alexander, E. Eben Alexander; A Neurosurgeon’s journey through the afterlife. Theosophical Society. 27 August 2014.
Fenwick, P. Questions and Answers, 5 Oct 2019.
Fenwick, P. 2018. What really happens when you die: End-of-life-phenomena. An interview with Peter Fenwick. 2 May 2018.
Parnia, S. 2012. What Near-Death Experiences Tell Us About Consciousness and the Concept of the
Self. 6 Jan 2012.
Schucman, H. 1976. A Course in Miracles. Foundation for Inner Peace. CA, USA.
Van Lommel, P. Jan 2013. Journal of Consciousness Studies, Vol 20, Nos 1-2, 2013, pp. 7-48(42).
Van Lommel, P. 2013,
Van Lommel, P. &#39;Consciousness and The Near Death Experience,&#39; Interview by Iain McNay. 23 May 2013.


Brief report on Di Batchelor’s Presentation, by Jeni McGarry

I found Di’s presentation on Robert Hoss’s methodology for Dream work insightful. To begin with, Di presented slides showing the depth of his scientific approach to dreams by highlighting the following factors:
  1. Differentiating between Rem sleep and Non-Rem sleep (NREM). That in both these stages of the sleep cycle, dreams take place. The difference between these two states is the degree of remembering dreams. Dreams are more easily remembered after Rem sleep as we often wake up from a Rem sleep cycle. In NREM, the dreams are harder to remember when we wake up as the fragments of dream memory are smaller. Despite this, all dream fragments are useful.
  2. The conceptual role of emotion is in the creation of dream images acting as metaphors  creating a symbolic language.  There is a large range of images that have meaning in dreams for the dreamer and the associations they make.  This is because concepts retained throughout life are reinforced in dreams. These create meaningful similarities that connect unrelated subjects. The dream images are vital in presenting our psyche with knowledge that allows for associations to be made.
  3. The waking state and the dreaming state differ from each other.  Dreaming provides a unique state of consciousness that is different from waking consciousness. In the waking state we have access to the frontal cortex giving us access to self-reflection, will, rational thinking and waking memory. However, the sleeping state is much more spatial and dreams are not limited by the restrictions of the external world.
  4. The underlying Archetypal processing reinforces what the dreamer inherently knows and provides the possibility of a creative alternative outcome.
Di presented a slide that showed how the dreaming process models the Whole Self with the self-organising Centre of our personality. The Whole Self is comprised of both the conscious and unconscious parts, including the ego and rejected or Shadow parts of self, which result in separation conflicts. This slide can be accessed from the website for a fuller in-depth explanation.
Di then demonstrated Bob’s Six Magic Questions that help the dreamer’s meaning-making process to potentially work with the tiniest fragment of a dream. The dreamer chooses a dream object that has an emotional charge; re-enters the dream space, and asks the dream object to answer the questions as though in an interview, responding with an “I” reply:
What is your purpose? What do you like about being this object?”
What do you dislike about being this object? What do you most fear?”
And, “What do you most desire?”
The dream object is finally asked, “Do you have a message for the dreamer?”
If the dream object represents a person that the dreamer knows in real life, then ask the dreamer what are the qualities of that person in life?
I volunteered to be the dreamer for Di’s demonstration, using a recent dream which was set in a big museum. This last question was particularly pertinent to my situation and was extremely helpful in bringing an awareness that helped me deal with an upcoming event. Initially I didn’t have a clue as to what the dream was about. However, after Di’s skilful intervention using the six questions, I found deeper insight into how I could overcome underlying anxiety regarding it.
 Marie Brand              
This dream happened on 20 September 2022. One analysis was done in a Dream 101 Class led by Margaret Bowater in October 2022, and the following week a second analysis was done with Di Batchelor using the Hoss Protocol. In this report I describe the two approaches and compare the complementary findings.  The account below is verbatim from my Dream Notebook and the illustration is my first attempt to draw on-screen.

Dream report:             There is Enough Time
I was within a small, enclosed space at the end of a veranda on one level above ground. It seemed to probably be the building where I attended Boarding School. I was at peace, sitting quietly in a chair and it was dusk/dark. I was alone. I became aware of someone on the other side of the wall, on the balcony, and became concerned, a little anxious. Then I became aware that there was a small aperture like the opening of a ticket office or cubicle and a person was approaching.  Suddenly two white fluttery woman’s hands waved at me through the aperture and terrified me! I yelled at the person to leave, to go away but the fluttering continued. As I had the sense that the PERSON of the hands was going to “GET ME”, I shrieked and woke on the floor having gashed my left shin on something. My heart rate was up - heart pounding - and I thought I’d managed to ward off Death.

Using the Bowater Protocol, and in response to general questions from the group, the following additional information emerged.
  • I was initially very calm, even serene.  The Boarding School was physically attached to the Convent premises where the nuns lived.
  • I had a sense that the hands were trying to attract my attention. (I know that human brains instinctively respond to movement, even when it is a tiny movement in the outer part of the field of vision).
  • This led to my being invited to ‘be’ the hands and talk to Marie. The hands, I discovered, were saying “Look at me!  Pay attention to me!”   However, I did not know what they were trying to show me. However, I became sure that they were the hands of Woman Death. 
  • I had responded respectfully. “Go away!” was not as forceful as the expletives that I might have used, given my panic by that stage. Perhaps this was linked to my conviction that Woman Death was present.
When asked about the context, what was going on in my life at the time, I had registered some weeks before to do a Death Doula course on-line, made of six segments. I had completed three in the first few weeks and then been overcome with Inertia and Procrastination. However, when I woke from the dream with a torn shin, I immediately opened the online coursework, settled to the study, and completed the course within 24 hours.
Someone in the group remarked that the fluttery hands were the kind that could work quickly on a laptop and that seemed exactly right to me.
I was not able to give the dream a Title. I felt energised and happy with the discussion, even though the dream had been a nightmare. The heaviness that had been with me for several weeks was gone.
Di Batchelor had independently (of the Course above) offered to use the Hoss protocol to work with me on a dream and I decided to use the same dream and see what emerged. She e-mailed me a protocol headed,
Transformational Dreamwork Tools & Worksheet
 6 tools for Dreamwork – Bob Hoss, (download)
The first thing to be done is to write the dream in the first person and in the present tense. Then six tools are provided:
Tool #1 – Dream to Life Associations:  does the dream metaphorically picture a waking life situation?
Tool #2 – Give the Dream a Voice (role-play or “6 Magic Questions”):
Tool #3 – Exploring the Emotion in Colour

Tool #4 – Explore How the Dream is Attempting to Resolve Your Situation
Tool #5 – Active Imagination
Tool #6 - Action: Resolution and Next Steps
  1. I was able to rewrite the dream as instructed. The change of tense from my notes
gave the account a dynamic and energetic quality. However, I could respond only to Tool #1. This requested a description of feelings, of metaphors, of memories and of associations. It was draining to go through all the steps, but there were insights gained. I sent my ‘Homework’ to Di and we met a few days later on Zoom. She was quite happy when I confessed that I had already worked with the dream and seemed relaxed and confident that there would be more! We discussed what I had written.
  1. For Tool l#2 I became the Voice of the frosted glass that was the upper part of
the ‘wall’ enclosing the small space on the balcony. I learned when the glass spoke to me that its function was to conceal unnecessary information from me and allow me to proceed with ambiguity, because I would certainly understand in the fullness of time.  I also FINALLY was able to articulate a Title:  There is enough time.  The Bowater group had identified that the fingers moving fast might be active on a laptop and now I had permission to proceed, confident that the time was sufficient.
  1. Tool #3 had no colour emotion, because my dream was in black and white.
However in the Bowater group the white bloodless hands carried the meaning of Death for me. We did not use Tools #4 to #6, due to time constraints.

Comparison of aspects of the two approaches – as I experienced them
  Bowater Hoss
1 Account of dream as recorded/ remembered Account of dream in present tense and first person (i.e.  some transformation needed)
2 Diagram/s provided by dreamer No diagram
3 Feelings identified Feelings identified
4 Context, parallels, associations Metaphors, memories, associations
5 Voice (of the hands) Voice (of the opaque glass)
6 No colour exploration prompted The whiteness of the hands prompted Death. Colour specifically considered. Hoss associates white with “new awareness.”
7 Different ending prompt – not needed New ending possible – not needed
8 Title asked for, but I could not articulate Title elicited
  1. Writing or telling the dream as remembered gave me a ‘steadier’, more authentic sense. Using present tense introduced an exciting dynamic but seemed less ‘true’. I can see that it could be argued that using present tense might provide an immediacy with a good energy.
  2. Drawing diagrams, no matter how primitive, provides an image quality to both the dreamer-narrator and the listener. This is useful for corroboration and for elicitation of further detail.
  3. Both approaches emphasise the feelings associated with aspects of the dream.
  4. Both approaches make explicit the connection of aspects of the dream to the immediate context and to the life history of the dreamer.
  5. Both approaches, by exploring Voice, exploit the possibility that all elements of the dream are (in some ways) aspects of the dreamer and therefore relevant.
  6. Hoss has extensive colour information, justifying some emphasis on this. However, for me the black and white did not evoke much that resonated with me, apart from white for “new awareness,” which led to the reassuring title, Enough Time.
  7. Both approaches are open (or actively encourage the dreamer) to articulate a new ending. This is useful if it is a ‘bad’ dream, an unfinished dream, or if the dreamer needs a more hopeful conclusion to the matters under consideration.
  8. Both approaches seek a Title. This allows the dreamer, possibly with the help of the listener/s, to articulate the essence of the dream.
The Hoss protocol, within the Tools, provides more opportunities for exploration, in the six pages. However, it seems unlikely that all the Tools could be used within 45 or even 60 minutes.  It is not easy to see where the emphasis lies, or where the listener should focus attention. By contrast, the Bowater protocol, on one page with a blank reverse, encourages a focussed and concise approach.
Thanks and Acknowledgements:
For this article I am grateful for the ongoing support of Margaret Bowater as I explore my dreams and for the new support of Di Batchelor for this nightmare work. I believe it was Freud who called dream interpretation the royal road to the unconscious.
Margaret Bowater: ; Bob Hoss:
By Marie Brand
My partner M has had a beautiful reconciliation with his estranged son C and his family. C had removed his father from his life after M’s wife died 14 years previously.  It has been very painful over the years seeing the impact on M – his grief and great loss.  He has been my partner for six years replacing his family with sport and an addiction to exercise.  I had worked very hard to quietly encourage reconciliation. The strategy has mainly been through the grandchildren (remembering their birthdays, inviting them to stay).  They have always wanted connection with their grandad. The opportunity finally arose. Due to a basketball national championship that the eldest granddaughter was in, we had been with C and the family over three days. He had finally spoken to his dad, shaken his hand and met me for the first time. I had been moved and relieved. Finally, C seemed to have forgiven his father and at last we could move forward and be a family.
Dream report:            DIVINATION GIFT – A SAND SQUEEZE BAG 
I see J (my late partner’s first wife) and she has been hand sewing a little bag. It looks like a pot pourri - shaped wheat bag. It is full of bits ‘n pieces (maybe archeological fragments). The fabric is floral, very old fashioned and comes from a certain culture linked to her. It is very pretty and has lace on it as well. J tells me it is a gift for me and I need to squeeze it very hard. If I do that something will pop out that portends my future. I squeeze it hard and sand comes out. I ask her what this means and she says to squeeze again. I need more. Once I have the objects I can find the meaning. The pop-outs are meant to be symbols of what is to come. I will also need a codex of meaning for each object. I am perplexed and want to squeeze again but wake up. The feeling is of frustration and curiosity.
Meaning:  I link this dream to the context of reconciliation between M and his son.
I searched the internet to see if there exists any such divination practice. The closest I came was “archeological fragments have been used to fill sandbags intended for protecting military positions.” This resonated with my context.
The protection theme and defence seemed significant.  Also, sand to me signifies multiplicity, the passing of time, impermanence.  With it falling from my little bag – it suggests a letting loose of the past. The feud M’s son has had with him linking to military positions is very pertinent. Even though I had never met his son, nor had any link to the cause of the feud I had been saddened by it all and it had affected me deeply too. In the dream, my squeezing of the bag letting loose the sand symbolises what had just occurred in real life. There had been a letting loose.  The sands of time had finally broken the “military-style” resistance of the son with his father (and, by proxy with me). J’s presence in the dream was also significant in that she was my late partner first wife and despite the negative stereotype of ex-wives with new partners, we had always had a strong healthy relationship.  My dream portends a moving forward to a more positive future for us.
DREAM REPORT:  The FOUR TREES, by Margaret Thorne
I’m in a childhood home, in the front room. I go into N’s bedroom. I am holding a tall green tree – it’s for her. As I look around her room, by the windows, I notice three other tall beautiful green trees growing. They look very healthy, even though they are inside.  I say to her, “Let’s find a place outside to plant them.”
Comment:  On my first reflection I see trees as symbolising my psychological growth.  They are saying  “I’ve been growing.” I felt tearful!  Several previous dreams involved my Ancestors. I’d been doing research on my family tree, asking myself questions: Who were they?  How did they feel about their own lives?  At this point in my life I feel a strong connection to my Ancestors, especially my grandmother and her friend N. I see the trees as representing the feminine ancestral line.

Keep these dates free in your diary for the coming year:

  • APRIL 1 and 2, Sat and Sun mornings 9.00-12.00:  DREAM NETWORK WEBINARS
No details yet, but we expect to have 2 presentations online by Dr Bob Hoss, a Past-President of the International Association for the Study of Dreams.
  • SEPTEMBER 22-24, Friday-Sunday:  DREAM NETWORK CONFERENCE at St Francis Retreat Centre in Auckland.  No details yet.
Our website
Note: Karen Field, our Dream Network website manager, has recently upgraded it, with a new website address:   It includes basic information about our organisation, notices about upcoming events, access to join the Contact List, articles about dreamwork, and archives of past Dream Bulletins.
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